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Perazzi barrel weight question ?

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Sportshot	Perazzi barrel weight question ?	Lead	[-]
Member Posts: 49 Jul 31 08 11:04 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None I would like to know if a 1.77kg. Perazzi barrel is generally considered to be "heavy". The length is just under 32" and it has the medium height (3/8") raised rib. I have considered having this barrel overbored to reduce the weight. Then tonight I saw a 32" Sporting Perazzi for sale with a 1.71kg. barrel. Now, I am thinking my barrels aren't all that bad. What do your Perazzi barrels weigh?
leftnose		#1	[-]
Member Posts: 12 Aug 7 08 4:13 PM New Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yes, that would generally be considered a heavy Perazzi barrel for 32". For that length, light weight would be under 1.60Kg. My 31.5" Perazzi barrels weigh 1.58Kg and I've seen them down to 1.54Kg.
Sportshot	...	#2	[-]
Member Posts: 49 Aug 8 08 10:55 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I agree, they are heavy. One detail is a raised rib which I like. It's a 3/8's. And that is putting 0.10 into the equation. So, I can live with that.... the other 0.15 is coming out of there. That is about 4 or five ounces....... I am looking for a barrelsmith who will backbore a factory choke tubed barrel. From what I am told, Briley cannot or will not do this. DO YOU or anyone out there know someone who will bore this .724 out to. 735? Remember this is a factory choke tubed .724 barrel. HELP! Thanks...
leftnose		#3	[-]
Member Posts: 12 Aug 11 08 11:48 AM New Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I have a friend who has a Ken Eyster back bored Perazzi factory choked barrel. He has has a lot of problems with those barrels shooting their ribs off (to the point that he has bought a new barrel) which he attributes to the backboring. For some reason, I think Ken Eyster has retired but you might try to contact TomWilkinson, another well know barrel 'smith.
Sportshot	backbore help	#4	[-]
Member Posts: 49 Aug 12 08 10:13 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yes, Ken has retired. The operation is now run by his son Jim. I know Jim and his son Evan from Olympic trap and the SCTP progrram. He might be willing to tune it. We'll see... Leftnose. Could you tell me in technical terms how the back boring might contribute to the ribs "shooting off". I am not keying in to what you are suggesting here. Thanks!
leftnose		#5	[-]
Member Posts: 12 Aug 13 08 2:49 PM New Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Shooting off ribs is a highly technical term and you might have heard it in conjunction with earlier Belgian Brownings. The solder that holds the ribs in place fails and the ribs come lose. They generally do not fall off because the solder does not fail along its entire length but the ribs become lose and you can wiggle them in spot. In the case of my friend, he thinks that the material taken out of the barrel changed the way they react when shot and what happens to them as they heat up. A barrel that has been backbored has less mass in it than when it left the factory. So, they will heat up and cool down faster and they will get hotter. This change could have effect the solder and its integrity leading to the shot off ribs. I know for a fact that that set of barrels had to have its ribs put back on three seperate times before he finally gave up and bought a new set.
Sportshot	...+	#6	[-]
Member Posts: 49 Aug 13 08 8:03 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yes, I knew what you were referring to. I didn't think it was like those old 391 Techny's ribs that were actually kicking back to the top of the receiver I was wondering if it was the side rib solder that was giving way, or the top rib. And where was the solder failing at? Was it near the muzzle, the breach or somewhere in the middle. Also, was it along the top barrel or the bottom barrel if it was the side rib. I would be interested to know those things.. I assume he just noticed a gap one day and that was it. Re-soldering a failed rib is probably hard to do. That is maybe why it gave out three consecutive times - assuming it was in the same spot. Also, supposedly a barrel does flex when fired. I think this is true for shotguns, I know it is for rifles and that is why they free-float them. So the new barrel vibration might have had as much to do with it as the additional heat. Last Edited By: Sportshot Aug 13 08 8:07 PM. Edited 1 times.
leftnose		#7	[-]
Member Posts: 12 Aug 14 08 3:31 PM New Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'll be shooting with him next week at a tournament. I'll ask him then.
Sportshot	...	#8	[-]
Member Posts: 49 Aug 20 08 11:16 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	thanks anyway. I've gone ahead and done the backboring. It accomplished what I needed, lighter quicker muzzle. If it fails I'll deal with it. Don't expect it to in fact i'd say the odds are 99.44/100's in my favor.
JLSO5		#9	[-]
Member Posts: 34 Aug 21 08 2:39 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	How much weight were you able to get out after the back-bore? I had an SO barrel that came in at .1640 with .728 bores and they would only open them to .735 and mine only went to .1620 which is not much.
Sportshot	.	#10	[-]
Member Posts: 49 Aug 24 08 7:26 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Probably 4+ ounces came off. I like the gun a lot better now, not perfect, but I can work with it. I will get some Titan tubes and spend more time on the bench press. That's the biggest problem with the Beretta SO and the ASE which everybody is so desperate for nowdays. There was a reason they fell by the wayside and it wasn't the Boehler barrel was too expensive. K-Guns use Boehler. The barrel was like the old perazzi o/u trap guns. Sluggish and lethargic. I laugh now as I see people paying any price to Coles Gunsmithing to get the extra ASE barrels. Those things have been in the dust bin for 10 years. I think they are going to be disappointed in their $4000 investment in a few years. I only kept my MX-8 because of the hard-to-find medium-high rib that I really like.
WileyCoyote	Food for Thought	#11	[-]
Executive Member Posts: 202 Aug 25 08 9:27 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Here are some things to think about. I weighed my various non Perazzi barrels: 1. K80 34" .740 bore with Briley thinwall extended chokes=1.761 kg 2. ASE 90 29.5" .722 bore with Beretta mobilchoke flush chokes =1.602 kg 3. K20 30" 30" nominal bore with Krieghoff flush chokes= 1.602 kg 4. SX1 30" .734 bore with Briley thinwall extended choke=1.162kg I calculated the weight reduction of a .015" backbore on theoretical 31.5" Beretta .722" bore barrels. Using .284lb/cubic inch density for the removed material, the barrels would become 2.46 oz lighter. The density of iron was used for the calculation, not the Antinit which might be slightly lighter. K guns sometimes use Bohler steel and sometimes use Krupp, but neither are the same alloy as the Bohler SO and ASE Berettas. The Berettas use Bohler Antinit (spelling?) and the K guns do not. The Antinit steel is supposed to be soldered using low temperature solder and this frequently results in the ribs coming loose. I know several high volume shooters who have had their barrels resoldered including Perazzi factory bore shooters which are not Antinit steel. Interestingly, the DT 10 Berettas do not use Antinit and I am told have much lighter barrels than does the ASE. My conclusion, both in the lab and in the field is that if you want the gun to move to the target more quickly and easily, use one barrel instead of two as might be inferred from the weight data above. I also wonder, at least from the weight data cited by Sportshot, where the idea that Krieghoff barrels are a lot heavier than Perazzi's came from. There, now that everything is perfectly clear, Harry Last Edited By: WileyCoyote Aug 25 08 9:29 AM. Edited 1 times.
NNasir Jr	barrels weight	#12	[-]
Executive Member Posts: 324 Aug 26 08 7:33 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	My barrels weigh 1.71 on my SC3 and same on my MX 8. But I ordered the guns to match the weight of the Kolar I shot prior to switching to Perazzi. They are lively enough but I'm 6' and weigh 235 and prior to the Kolar, I shot a 3200. So the barrels are not "heavy" for me but they are heavy. Have you thought about making them livlier by adding weight to the buttstock?
Sportshot	.	#13	[-]
Member Posts: 49 Aug 29 08 12:08 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	NNasir - Weight to the buttstock, yes, that is what I went with. At first it seemed counter intuitive but it works. I have a RAD 2 back there now, combine that with 4 oz's less of steel in the barrel. I have also gone to a very thin english schnabel fore-end, along with titanium tubes. Harry that was interesting analysis and excellent math. You disproved was a myth about Krieghoff and ASE physical barrel weight. I'm not too sure about handling characteristics. But both P and K can be either barrel heavy or barrel light. And the sporting DT- 10 rewrote the rule book about light and lively barrels.
WileyCoyote	Weight Added	#14	[-]
Executive Member Posts: 202 Aug 29 08 6:24 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Nadim and Sportshot-- Yes indeed I am a firm believer in adding weight to the aft end of everything. I balance all my pieces to a point 5" in front of the trigger. The idea of using the barrel pivot point or other references that vary a lot from gun to gun is meaningless for me. The trigger however is a constant that is used for length of pull, but for some reason loses its significance for balance. Go figure. For instance, most Italian pieces have a much shorter distance from the trigger to the hinge pin than do the Krieghoffs. Almost and inch for the ASE 90 as opposed to the K80. The SX1 and other semi autos need a standard reference that using the trigger brings to the table. After I did this, the difference in handling between the ASE 90 and the K20 is almost undetectable, as they weigh virtually the same with the same balance point between the hands. The K80 being about a pound heavier is another story. The SX1's with a single barrel and a lot of weight between the hands move for me the best of all. Now if I could analyze my focus or lack thereof on the target as easily as gun balance--- Food for thought. Harry
Flyway	Backboring	#15	[-]
Senior Member Posts: 108 Aug 30 08 6:51 PM Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	12 years ago, in prepping my SX-1, rightly or wrongly I wanted to lighten the 30" barrel as much as possible. Being simple minded, it occurred to me that as the breach end is much meatier than the other, Seminoles taper boring might be the way to go. In any event, I sent the barrel to them and the end result is that the bore starts off at 755 and reduces to 741. Unfortunately, I don't remember the specific barrel weight before and so I can't give you the amount of weight lost. This was a 30" field barrel, which I prefer to the trap barrels. I do know that the weigh of the barrel is a couple of tenths of an ounce lighter than my untouched 28" mod field barrel. The point being, for multichoke factory barrels, they might be able to taper bore the barrel down to the factory spec just in back of the chokes. That might do the trick. I don't know if they'd do that, but it seems like it would be possible. The bore is really interesting to look at, as the taper is evident. It's highly polished and I can't complain. FYI, I've patterned the barrel extensively and have no complaints there either.
Sportshot		#16	[-]
Member Posts: 49 Aug 30 08 11:54 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Another spot on observation Harry. Referencing the trigger as a balance point instead of the hinge. I've heard the arguments and seen many hinge pin see-saw demonstrations as points were made and debated. And the logic never blew me away either. It shows something but it is not a slam dunk answer. As you say. Some receivers are long, some are short, some guns have massive forearms and some have little splinters, then there are the ribs, etc. Flyway, I like that SX-1 reduction project. I'd do it too but somehow people hesitate in investing $500 of barrel work in a $300 barrel but have no problem spending the same $500 of a $2500 Perazzi barrel. We're funny that way. If you got a true 30" taper bore that is quite a feat of machining wizardry! My end result was a step taper looking for that last ounce. We aimed for .735 on a .725 bore at first and then found that a portion of the chamber end could safely go up to .738. I was grateful for that. I'm sure the cones were taken out too. Ok, so what that apparently left me needing some new overbored choke tubes. I'm tryng to get some credit with Gary at Briley on my collection of .725's towards some .735's. Here is my last math question? Right now I'm still using my .725 chokes. Since my bore went up to .735 do I essentially need to add another .010 constriction to every tube designation. Would that make an extra full .040 now a .050?
WileyCoyote	Extra Choke	#17	[-]
Executive Member Posts: 202 Aug 31 08 9:07 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	If the choke stays the same and the barrel bore gets larger, the constriction increases, so my answer would be to add the .010 to everything. My SX1 barrels and the K80 34" both use the same Briley series 2 choke and I have to adjust the choke "label" since the bores vary between barrels. The good news is that the chokes labeled LMOD break anything I shoot at if I do my part. Really simple if this works for you. Harry
Flyway	Backboring	#18	[-]
Senior Member Posts: 108 Aug 31 08 10:06 AM Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Just to clarify, the Seminole boring is three stepped. But I wasn't too concerned about that. My goal was exclusively weight reduction, not pattern improvement. My only goal in that regard was the pattens not being worse, and I believe that's the case. Logically, I couldn't see that a three step taper down the length of the bore could be more detrimental than a single forcing cone, especially given the high level of polish through the barrel.
ysrracer	barrels??	#19	[-]
Executive Member Posts: 206 Feb 2 09 8:56 PM Senior Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	So on a 12ga 31.5 barrels with factory chokes, how many different weights are there? How many different bores? I'm talking factory only. I'm thinking of ordering an MX2000S Thanks for all the help. brad g. So. Cal. USA www.ysr-racer.com

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Perazzi barrel weight question ?

Perazzi barrel weight question ?